Florina and her Paired Endings
Jun. 4th, 2015 09:00 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
hakkariStill using Internet Explorer to port things over.
Will probably reedit later but right now nah.
Unpopular opinion time, probably.
I really like Florina, but the way the script (especially in the supports) handles her is honestly one of my least favorite things about FE7. This is mostly apparent in her two paired endings (aka the FE femslash ship of choice and also probably Hector’s most popular pairing), but I’ll try to tread lightly.
I would like to point out that what I say isn’t hatred about the ships or chemistry, more on how they chose to portray them in game.
So yeah, let’s do this. As always I’m open to counter arguments and analysis.
1. A Brief (lol) Analysis of Florina’s Character
One of the big things about Florina is that she’s portrayed as very shy and weak, but as a character who wants to become stronger. She idolizes her big sister Fiora because of how strong she is and wants to become just like her. A big part of her character arc throughout Lyn’s story is her desire to be able to protect Lyn instead of the other way around.
Florina is notable for not only having this goal, but actively pursuing it. She’s surprisingly not self sabotaging (which is nice because a lot of characters in her archetype tend to be), and is really only affected by other people trying to help her.
This is most noticeable in her supports with Farina, who is trying to help her reach her goal by pushing her out of her comfort zone:
B Support
And A Support:
I have a lot of issues with Farina’s supports with Florina, but I’ll cover them later. Basically the point is that the only way Florina is brought down is by other people, not herself.
She’s constantly trying to improve and in Hector’s supports actually tries her best to get over her fears to thank him for saving her:
B Support:
So, with that in mind, why do I have an issue with how script handles her? She obviously has an arc started so it should be fine, right?
II. Florina’s “Romantic” Supports
I put romantic in quotations to avoid the wank about Lyn and her sexuality, but they have paired endings together and fight the peg knight/lord archetype so whatever.
So first let’s start with her relationship with Lyn.
They’re shown as incredibly close friends who would do anything for each other, with Florina flying out on the off chance that she can help her get to her grandfather. She also decides pretty quickly that she’s going to stay with her and help her out as a servant so that she can protect her friend while also becoming stronger.
So, that’s fine right? Well, let’s talk about Lyn really quick.
She’s very protective of her loved ones, honest, strong-willed, and stubborn. She also has a very teasing and friendly side to her.
The issue is in the first part when it comes to Florina.
Hector/Florina A Support:
I bolded the important part.
Lyn is a bit over protective and it’s never really addressed. She also has a bad habit of babying Florina:
Florina/Lyn C Support:
Reminding her of embarrassing things (which, if you read the Farina supports, Florina absolutely hates):
Florina/Lyn B Support:
And once again this is never addressed, as in their last support the focus switches from nostalgia to Lyn deciding to head back to the plains after the game ends with Florina encouraging her.
Also slightly notable and along the same vein is this bit from her support with Fiora:
C Support:
A reminder that Florina goes out of her way to try and work up the nerve to talk to Hector. She isn’t a character that wants to be babied. She wants to push outside of her comfort zone in order to overcome her weaknesses.
Lyn instead keeps reminding her of them.
This is, funnily enough, really only a thing that comes up in Support conversations. Lyn and Florina talking in the base game actually comes off fine, and Lyn encourages her to keep working towards her goals. Honestly if there’s any reason to ship them it should be the dialogue from Lyn’s Story and also their brief interaction when Lyn meets up with Hector and Eliwood.
I don’t think that this was supposed to come off the way that it does in the Supports, is what I’m trying to say.
And also, let’s talk about Hector/Florina.
This will be a lot shorter because, well, the issue is pretty clear up front.
They don’t actually talk until their last support. The first thing that Florina talks to him about is asking him not to beat up her pegasus (even though he’s not actually going to do that).
Hector/Florina A Support:
And these are their last lines before end game together:
Hector/Florina A Support:
This is just Hector being Hector of course, but when paired with how uncertain Florina is at this point it comes off as a bit too harsh. These two get married less than a year after the game ends (lol).
But hey, you can tell they’re happy because they’re smiling in their end CG? I guess?
Once again this isn’t really an issue with the ship proper, it’s more how it’s presented. Hector immediately assumes she always needs protecting and Florina doesn’t get a chance to actually say that she’s working on being stronger.
Which would easily be something that Hector understands because he wants to do that as well.
III. Supports with Others
I already posted Farina’s supports above but I want to point out some really nice ones for Florina that often get overlooked.
Her ones with Fiora are super notable because they’re one of the few where she actually gets a chance to speak up and make herself heard.
Fiora/Florina A Support:
Congrats to Fiora for being one of the few characters to actually not try and force Florina back into the baby box like everyone else does.
And her ones with Nino are Ninian are cute and end with her promising to protect and be there for them:
Florina/Nino A Support:
Florina/Ninian A Support:
Same with Serra:
Serra/Florina A Support:
So really it’s a bit of a shame that her paired endings + Farina supports end so poorly, with Florina deciding that she’ll just stay under them and be protected.
IV: The End
This got longer than I anticipated. So I guess… what does this mean in the long run?
I suppose my point here was that idolizing Florina’s two paired endings as flawless (especially Lyn/Florina) is a bit… excessive. It would be one thing if the supports ended with the other party realizing that Florina wanted to become strong, but they don’t.
This has been an issue with pegasus knights since Florina, though it’s thankfully kind of subverted with Elincia and (sometimes) Sumia.
As much as I like the idea behind Lyn/Florina and Hector/Florina, instead of asking for more ships like that in FE, let’s try and imporve on it, yeah?
Will probably reedit later but right now nah.
Unpopular opinion time, probably.
I really like Florina, but the way the script (especially in the supports) handles her is honestly one of my least favorite things about FE7. This is mostly apparent in her two paired endings (aka the FE femslash ship of choice and also probably Hector’s most popular pairing), but I’ll try to tread lightly.
I would like to point out that what I say isn’t hatred about the ships or chemistry, more on how they chose to portray them in game.
So yeah, let’s do this. As always I’m open to counter arguments and analysis.
1. A Brief (lol) Analysis of Florina’s Character
One of the big things about Florina is that she’s portrayed as very shy and weak, but as a character who wants to become stronger. She idolizes her big sister Fiora because of how strong she is and wants to become just like her. A big part of her character arc throughout Lyn’s story is her desire to be able to protect Lyn instead of the other way around.
Florina is notable for not only having this goal, but actively pursuing it. She’s surprisingly not self sabotaging (which is nice because a lot of characters in her archetype tend to be), and is really only affected by other people trying to help her.
This is most noticeable in her supports with Farina, who is trying to help her reach her goal by pushing her out of her comfort zone:
B Support
Farina: I mean, have you gotten over your fear of men? You must have had a hard time of it when you left Ilia on your own! Did you cry yourself to sleep every night like you used to?
Florina: N-No…of course not. I-I’m a second-rank pegasus knight, aren’t I?
Farina: Yeah. Full-fledged… And…exactly who was it that I could make cry at every practice?
Florina: You… You were…
Farina: And that’s not all, come to think of it… Has anyone here seen you at a festival? I swear, you are a completely different person once you start coming out of your shell!
Florina: Yeah…but I…
Farina: And I bet Lyn doesn’t know anything about all of that, does she? I know all kinds of juicy secrets I could tell her…
Florina: N-No, don’t!
Farina: Ah! Here she comes! Lyn! Listen to this! You’ll never believe what Florina did!
Florina: No! No! Please don’t!
And A Support:
Florina: B-Because… you said you would keep that stuff secret!
Farina: Yeah, but it’s not like Lyn, I mean… Lady Lyndis…cares… She was laughing, too! It’s not as bad as you make it out to be… …Not as bad as when you started singing the Pegasus Counting Song all the way to one hundred at that one festival back when–
Florina: No! Stop! It’s so embarrassing!
Farina: I mean, it’s not like I included the part where you got up on that table full of food, sat yourself down cross-legged, and started belting out that song with a crooked grin on your face! Right?
Florina: Sob…
Farina: Awww… There, there. Don’t cry…
Florina: Hey! You’re the one who made me cry in the first place!
Farina: Look, I’m sorry. Maybe I did go a little too far… But you know, I had to make sure. I had to find out if you were the same old Florina.
Florina: Huh?
Farina: I mean, Florina, suddenly you’re just so powerful! You’re like a different person! I missed the old Florina. But I feel better now. I just had to check and see if she was still there.
Florina: Oh, Farina…
I have a lot of issues with Farina’s supports with Florina, but I’ll cover them later. Basically the point is that the only way Florina is brought down is by other people, not herself.
She’s constantly trying to improve and in Hector’s supports actually tries her best to get over her fears to thank him for saving her:
B Support:
Florina: Um… Th-Thank you for saving me! Do… Do you remember me? I am Florina… servant of House Caelin… …I said it! I… I did say it, didn’t I! Huey, I said it! Now, if I can just… …I can say it to Lord Hector’s face now, right? C’mon, Florina! Chin up! Take a deep breath… You have to speak loudly, remember! … … J-Just once more… For practice… Breathe deep… Lord Hector!
So, with that in mind, why do I have an issue with how script handles her? She obviously has an arc started so it should be fine, right?
II. Florina’s “Romantic” Supports
I put romantic in quotations to avoid the wank about Lyn and her sexuality, but they have paired endings together and fight the peg knight/lord archetype so whatever.
So first let’s start with her relationship with Lyn.
They’re shown as incredibly close friends who would do anything for each other, with Florina flying out on the off chance that she can help her get to her grandfather. She also decides pretty quickly that she’s going to stay with her and help her out as a servant so that she can protect her friend while also becoming stronger.
So, that’s fine right? Well, let’s talk about Lyn really quick.
She’s very protective of her loved ones, honest, strong-willed, and stubborn. She also has a very teasing and friendly side to her.
The issue is in the first part when it comes to Florina.
Hector/Florina A Support:
Hector: You were always hanging around like you were going to say something… But whenever I went to ask you what it was, you’d run off! When I asked Lyn what to do… She said a big lunk like me should stay away from her friend! Can you believe it? What’s a guy supposed to do? So, tell me what you wanted to say. I’m all ears!
I bolded the important part.
Lyn is a bit over protective and it’s never really addressed. She also has a bad habit of babying Florina:
Florina/Lyn C Support:
Lyn: Florina! Are you well?
Florina: Lady Lyndis! I’m well, thank you.
Lyn: Good, I was worried– But don’t go out alone if you can. You never know where archers might be lurking.
Florina: Yes.
Lyn: Are you carrying enough healing salve? Your weapons–are they all in order?
Florina: Eh? Well… Let’s see… A vulnerary… And, um… My lance is here… And…eh?
Lyn: It’s all right, Florina. Take your time. I’m here should anything happen.
Florina: But, Lady Lyndis… It should be the other way around! I’m here to protect you…
Lyn: Don’t worry about me, I’ll be fine. Didn’t I always look out for you back on the plains? Remember?
Reminding her of embarrassing things (which, if you read the Farina supports, Florina absolutely hates):
Florina/Lyn B Support:
Lyn: I was out hunting when I saw a pegasus wandering about… When I went to see what was going on, I saw you hanging on to that tree branch…
Florina: W-Well, what was I supposed to do? All those bees came flying out at me! I was so frightened…
Lyn: I remember you were crying because you couldn’t get down. I couldn’t believe that you, a little girl, were a pegasus knight!
Florina: Please, don’t tell that story any more, it’s so embarrassing… You know how dishonorable it is to fall from your pegasus.
And once again this is never addressed, as in their last support the focus switches from nostalgia to Lyn deciding to head back to the plains after the game ends with Florina encouraging her.
Also slightly notable and along the same vein is this bit from her support with Fiora:
C Support:
Fiora: Really? But the Caelin knights are all men, aren’t they? I just think of you, all timid and scared among them... So, Florina… You really don’t mind it? Didn’t they give you a hard time for being a woman? Now if they did, I want you to let me know. Because I will tell them a thing or two…
Florina: I-I’m fine. Lady Lyndis took good care of me… And everyone was really nice…
A reminder that Florina goes out of her way to try and work up the nerve to talk to Hector. She isn’t a character that wants to be babied. She wants to push outside of her comfort zone in order to overcome her weaknesses.
Lyn instead keeps reminding her of them.
This is, funnily enough, really only a thing that comes up in Support conversations. Lyn and Florina talking in the base game actually comes off fine, and Lyn encourages her to keep working towards her goals. Honestly if there’s any reason to ship them it should be the dialogue from Lyn’s Story and also their brief interaction when Lyn meets up with Hector and Eliwood.
I don’t think that this was supposed to come off the way that it does in the Supports, is what I’m trying to say.
And also, let’s talk about Hector/Florina.
This will be a lot shorter because, well, the issue is pretty clear up front.
They don’t actually talk until their last support. The first thing that Florina talks to him about is asking him not to beat up her pegasus (even though he’s not actually going to do that).
Hector/Florina A Support:
Hector: This Pegasus is yours? Do wrong? He just grabbed my arm in his teeth and dragged me off! Wouldn’t let go, either! I couldn’t do anything in front of Eliwood and the others… But now he’s mine! I’ll show him who’s boss!
Florina: No–! Don’t hurt Huey! Please… If you must punish someone, punish me!
Hector: Heh, so you can talk. And loud at that.
And these are their last lines before end game together:
Hector/Florina A Support:
Hector: You know… I’d better keep an eye on you. Don’t leave my side on the battlefield. Gotta keep you from getting into trouble.
Florina: Lord Hector… … …Ung…sniff…
Hector: Tsk. Don’t be crying. You know I can’t stand sniffling…
This is just Hector being Hector of course, but when paired with how uncertain Florina is at this point it comes off as a bit too harsh. These two get married less than a year after the game ends (lol).
But hey, you can tell they’re happy because they’re smiling in their end CG? I guess?
Once again this isn’t really an issue with the ship proper, it’s more how it’s presented. Hector immediately assumes she always needs protecting and Florina doesn’t get a chance to actually say that she’s working on being stronger.
Which would easily be something that Hector understands because he wants to do that as well.
III. Supports with Others
I already posted Farina’s supports above but I want to point out some really nice ones for Florina that often get overlooked.
Her ones with Fiora are super notable because they’re one of the few where she actually gets a chance to speak up and make herself heard.
Fiora/Florina A Support:
Florina: Well, you see. I really love you, Fiora. And it would be great to be with you, to have you to protect me always…
Fiora: Florina…
Florina: But… But… That wouldn’t be good for me… You’re so kind, you would probably protect me for the rest of my life… That’s the problem… If I rely on you forever, I’ll never become my own person. So…I’ve decided not to return to Ilia yet. It’s because I do love you… You see, I don’t want to always be the crybaby Florina who needs you to protect her… I want to be more like my sister, a fine pegasus knight.
Fiora: Florina… I…understand. That’s the first time I have ever heard you express yourself so clearly.
Florina: I-I’m sorry…
Fiora: No, it’s a good thing! It means you’re all grown up now! At first I thought I would rather have you in my division so I could protect you, but… But now I know you’ll be fine on your own…
Congrats to Fiora for being one of the few characters to actually not try and force Florina back into the baby box like everyone else does.
And her ones with Nino are Ninian are cute and end with her promising to protect and be there for them:
Florina/Nino A Support:
Nino: I parted with my brothers…as enemies. They probably hate me, right? I mean, they wouldn’t forgive me no matter how much I begged, right?
Florina: Nino! That’s…
Nino: How come I couldn’t just tell them… If I could have just been braver… Maybe we wouldn’t have had to leave things like that… Why… …Why……
Florina: Nino… Sniff…
Nino: Oh, Florina, don’t you cry too!
Florina: But… But… Nino… It’s just… You tried…sniff… Sob…
Nino: Choke… ……wahhh……
Florina: Sniff…choke… ……Nino… I’ll… Be…here for you… …Always…here for you, you know.
Florina/Ninian A Support:
Ninian: Doesn’t everyone think that dragons are terrifying, man-eating beasts? I mean, how could two different species ever get along?
Florina: It doesn’t matter what species you are… Look at me. My pegasus and I are of different species…
Ninian: Yeah, I guess so…
Florina: Pegasi are all very shy around humans… But I’m kind of that way, too… At first this sweet mare and I were so afraid of each other… It didn’t go so well… But we played together, and swam together… And soon, we began to understand each other… And that’s how we became friends… So even if two beings may be shaped a little differently… That doesn’t mean they can’t get along.
Ninian: I see… Yeah, you must be right! I mean…we get along, don’t we?
Same with Serra:
Serra/Florina A Support:
Florina: You’re always bouncing around… Popping up and just… Just saying whatever you want…
Serra: Wait, wait, wait! Now, which one of those makes me seem like a princess?
Florina: I really did want to be more like you… So I mustered my courage and approached you... I’m glad I did. We should stay friends…
Serra: Aww…Florina!
So really it’s a bit of a shame that her paired endings + Farina supports end so poorly, with Florina deciding that she’ll just stay under them and be protected.
IV: The End
This got longer than I anticipated. So I guess… what does this mean in the long run?
I suppose my point here was that idolizing Florina’s two paired endings as flawless (especially Lyn/Florina) is a bit… excessive. It would be one thing if the supports ended with the other party realizing that Florina wanted to become strong, but they don’t.
This has been an issue with pegasus knights since Florina, though it’s thankfully kind of subverted with Elincia and (sometimes) Sumia.
As much as I like the idea behind Lyn/Florina and Hector/Florina, instead of asking for more ships like that in FE, let’s try and imporve on it, yeah?
